NPC corp tax is increased by say 10% to covert the extra concord tax

Make the war dec system more robust (cant leave corp for 1 week for example, so people cant just jump corp but cant be griefed with a constant war)

As soon as you leave the NPC corp you consent to being at the mercy of your corp mates, make that clear if you want. Seriously what risk are they going to remove next? How much bubble wrap and cotton wool do people want in this game?

Falcon promised us this game was going to remain harsh and unforgiving, guess he flat out lied.

I love how the carebears get all excited and all "yummy griefer tears.. blah.." since this is obviously the only time they have something like a "win" in this game if CCP changes the rules.

However, I would like to point out a couple of things:

• We will adopt and you will cry again like always.
• Carebears will again meet in the forums and share their tears because someone was shooting their spaceship in a spaceship shooting game.
• It will be just another nerf on the long list of nerfs to make Highsec safer and be another confirmation that James 315 was right, which will make more people join the cause => more dead carebears, more tears.

If you can fit 8 blasters on a Catalyst and want to have some fun in EVE shooting the risk-averse carebears who want to make EVE like Hello Kitty Online join CODE. today.

If you don't want to risk the reputation or sec status of your toon, now is the best time to train a new gank alt in one of your free character slots with a PLEX or the 20day present you got for xmas. Check this site for a skill plan and join the minerbumping ingame channel: http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/12/the-evolution-of-catalyst-pilot.html

I honestly don't really think this change to highsec awoxing is going to change much either way. But my data does show that awoxing targets are primarily older, established players contrary to the assumptions of many here who are using the "think of the noobs" excuse. This of course makes perfect sense as why would a player spend time to train a spy and infiltrate a corp just to blow up some new player in a Venture? They are targeting juicy bling mission ships and big industrials that are of course flown by older, established pilots.

How the retention rate of the tiny number of new players who were caught up in an awox compares to the overall retention rate of the game is something this data does not say. Only CCP has that data.

"EVE is a game for greifers, ganking and scamming is rampant" is not correct or at best a half-truth, but it's unfortunately a persistent misconception often repeated.

Especially since CCP themselves has admitted that people who get into a PvE focused playstyle... eventually quit at a far higher rate than any other demographic of subscriber.

No, I'm implying that you have one thing that you know works(player interaction and PvP content), and one thing that you know does not work(everything else).

And putting way more emphasis on the thing that you know does not work, at the expense of the thing that does... is ludicrous.

I'm implying that EVE should play to it's strengths.

It very much is. Some of us understand that 'freedom' doesn't just mean "I am free to do as i wish" it means "We are ALL free to do as we wish and some d-bag will use his freedom in a way I don't like".

It is their choice, but they'd be choosing to kill EVE online if they go for the 'more diverse playerbase'. All people are not equal, and the 'more diverse' types wouldn't play this game year after year the way we have.

This is so intensely self-serving it's not funny, and I'm a PVE focused player.

PVE is a great example of what I said in my previous post. "Better PVE" is a mantra for some people, but their actions put the lie to their request, because the fact that we spend YEAR after YEAR playing the same crappy PVE content means we don't want 'better' PVE. if it weren't good enough we wouldn't be here.

Real PVE players understand what EVE PVE is: it's sandbox pve content in a pve game. The way to play it is to find new and different ways to do it (like how some people beat lvl 4 missions with assault frigs faster than average mission runners do with battleships, or like how this dude solos the blood raider 10/10 with one ship when everyone says it's impossible).

The people crying for "good pve" are people who belong in thempark games (aka "movies that pretend to let you interact with them") not sandbox games that require thought.

They said that about Ultima Online, too. Dead inside of a year. And SWG, too.

Turns out the "diverse playerbase" isn't actually a real thing, just an imaginary one.

Because WoW is the exception, not the rule. Oh, and see the above, there is plenty of precedent as to what happens when you decide to betray your core playerbase to chase theoretical casual players.

The funny thing is that it's quite the opposite.

They've already demonstrated thrice over that they can't remake the base game anymore. The people who could have done so have long since quit the company.

Unless they have EVE 2.0 waiting in the wings somewhere, the basic framework of the game isn't subject to change. That means that PvE is never going to be anything except shooting red crosses.

A. All the good stories and free publicity that EVE has had over the years (some which included RL news headlines) were by the hands of those veterans.

B. The last time they did NOT listen to their existing playerbase, they had to lay off about 30% of their devs...

People are crying for good PvE AND less PvP, in a PvP game (look up the official New Player FAQ by CCP, they themself state that EVE is designed as a PvP game at its core).

Those people that just wnat to PvE in peace, should go to a game that is designed for peaceful PvE.
I'm not rushing into a PvE game and demand they should make more good PvP.

btw, good luck doing AFK PvP...You clearly are one of those mindless peopel that sponsor CCP by a monthly payment and then don't actually play the game.

AKA crying about it. PVE is fine. I spent all of last night doing some while listening to (honest to God) DISNEY SONGS on EVE Radio.

Lol, you're the one who doesn't like current EVE, yet somehow I'm the one who should biomass.

Let's see.

Blizzard had to make WoW from a sub-based game into P2W, to keep people coming in.

Yeah, solid point you have there.

Scenario 2 can only be achieved at the expense of gameplay mechanics that have made EVE what it has been over the past 12 years.

What? Clone grades have no impact on pve (NPCs don't pod), and only increased the amount of pvp everywhere, especially for players piloting smaller, less skill-intensive ships, which is a demographic mostly populated by the newer ones.

With a complete safe highsec...null-sec will crumble. They too don't want complete risk free high-sec. But if you fail to see why, it shows how little you actually know about EVE.

Then again, can't blame a mindless PvE guy that just shoot crosses or asteroids for not reading into all the stuff going on in EVE.

True, they could make PvE more fun. But that should not mean it should be made safer, which is what they are doing.

Though could have kept it as dangerous as it was, but expand on it.

Ooh, you mean like CCP did.

By making Null-sec aswel as Low-sec more profitable.

Yet NO big migration of PvE players has happened.

Why, because the vast majority of PvE players is completely risk-adverse.
They rather spent twice as long in low paying safety then better ISK for a bit more risk.

3 Letters:

R
V
B

Most of the experienced players live in high-sec.

Most of the experienced players would move there to carebear to their heart's contempt.

LOL.

Not at the PC now, so can't look it up. But the majority of the EVE population lives in high-sec.

p.s. It is those vets in high-sec that are affected by Awoxing when they fly their pimp fit battleship, not Mr New Guy in his venture / Level 1 mission frigate.

If a corp rejects a new guy just cause he might be an Awoxer...it is NOT a decent corp

So, what you are saying...EVE Uni is ran by lunatics. Nice way of complimenting someone.

A corp that is interested in new players, recruits them now already.
A corp that does not recruit new players now, will not recruit new players after the change. As they are not interested in new players.

Conjecture.

Furthermore, why is it okay to have mass unsubs from the pvp segment of the player population but not the pve segment?

Furthermore, new players are hardly conscious of the NPC corporation mechanic (and what it entails for nonconsensual pvp in the game), and thus, the absence of NPC corporations will feel natural to them, much like all of the other game mechanics they have to learn.

Sorry. But how come that there are numerous of new player friendly corps already out there atm that assist new players into the way of EVE.

New players have nothing to do with this.

If CCP wanted more new players to get into a player corp, they would have updated their NPE to get it happening.

This is just the next move to keep the highsec whiners happy.

This 'awox button' will mean more people will join play corps. Some of those corps will be good experiences, most of them will be bad experiences which could quite possibly accelerate a 'new players' decision to quit.

Some of those corps will be on the up and up, others will simply be 'new player grist mills' for established players to make isk off of instead of having to rat/mission/explore themselves (because the new players won't know any better). Hello "Renting" in high sec, because this change ends up creating the same meta-condition in high sec that lead to vast swaths of null becoming good for nothing but renting.

Those corps will have lower taxes than the npc corps (npc corp taxes are ISK SINKS), meaning more isk in circulation in the game after this change happens. Congratulations, the isk in your wallet is now worth less than it was before because less isk being sunk means devaluation of currently existing isk.

Plenty of corps already recruit people as new as 5 minutes.

It is **** corps that dont.

You do know the in game corp search ads suck.

But if you did some research you would find over 40 corps (yes, I do have a list and try to keep it up to date) who are good and very new player friendly.

But apparantly you didnt kbow that cause that would mean learning something new and spent time doing something other then carebearing.

Too bad not every account is actually asked why they leave. So there is no statistica about that (proof it...)

No. Go do your own ******* research and spent some time doing something useful with your time in EVE. Stop being the useless leech, I already owe you an underwear pic and a date.

So CCP is going bust? When did this happen?

EVE should go bust to appease me, EVE should stay EVE, rather than continue down the road of muddy nothingness other MMOs are and have been.

A good new player friendly corp has stuff that will assist a new player in the way they need it:

* Proper guidance by older players.
* Assistance in the profession that the new player want
* But most of all, a good attitude among the corp players that keep people interested in the game. The latter, is a matter of trust.

Could you please list me where the first rule of high-sec corp is to brand everybody an Awoxer by default....

If you play smart, you won't become a victim. Even if you are in a corp with others and if those others are completely new players.

So, a new player joins, how does he know where you are exactly...if you are in a mission, he has to probe you (he...Dscan...ooh probes) or you ahve to invite him there yourself.

If at the station, just redock...if you can't stand 2 sec of damage in yoru ship, you suck .

You still assume that all new players automatically are awoxers.
They aren't.

I've been in a high-sec corp for nearly a year when I started, they very openly recruited new players...

NOT a single Awox happened...not 1

They openly recruited from a tutorial station system...

NOT 1...

So, if you and yoru corp...together fail to kill an awoxer...does that say something about the game or about your corp's ability to react to something?

If you and yoru corp mates are SO terrible paranoid that all new players are definately awoxers and everybody that isn't new isn't (hint, age or backgroudn doesn't say anything, it's easy to rig a "good" history just to awox your actual target) you are in an even worse corp and shouldn't be recruiting at all.

Says the person who is in his corp with his own CEO-alt...to evade wardecs and play solo to the person who is in a damn active corp, happily doing stuff together, including a quite new player.

And who has been in all kinds of corps and never saw anything that you mentioned about that WILL happen whn you let a single new player in.

That will depend on whether it is still EVE, the harsh, cold and unforgiviing universe I once subscribed to.

I've been mulling this over and it seems like tying this feature to a small tax would be a good idea. Corps lack tools to tune their level of risk so a small tax to CONCORD for the protection would be exactly this - a way to balance safety (risk) vs. profit (reward).

It used to be CCPs ad talk.

Looking back 4 years I used to regularly

• get can flipped even in rookie systems
• have ninja salvagers in my mission pockets
• see pirates gank / extort miners

On the other side, newbies got an enormous buff income wise during the last years, miners especially, looking at the venture. Trit was at 1,5-2 isk/unit 4 years ago and a hulk was a 240m investment that could easily be lost to just three cats. So loss did matter back then.

They're recruiting new players anyway.

That's how any awoxing happens in the first place.

Tim...citation please that is done for that reason...

Still waiting on proof that is the reason.

P.s. new players are already safe from grieving by the new player protection rules.

Also, I have recruited MANY new players over the course of years. None of them were Awoxers nor have been awoxed.

It is the corps security that makes that happen. It is quite easy to spot an awoxer.
CCP just added this for the corps who suck at doing their own security.

Tim.

Im still waiting on your proof people awox new players.

Almosy all awox that happens is against loot pinatas flown by older people.

Generally vetting a true new player is easy.

And in general the awoxing new players are alts and those are very easy to spot if you know what you are doing.

Just cause you suck at doing something correctly doesnt mean something is wrong.

sure you can.
also this is why people have training corps etc.

if people don't want to put the effort in to screen applicants, awoxing is exactly what they deserve.

tip: if the new guy's only ship is a gnosis... it's probably an awoxer.

Citation... where did you read that...show me the official CCP source of said change.

And it is very easy to spot a genuine new player from an alt of a veteran player by just interacting with them before you let them join. Not to mention that an awox alt will 99% of the time fail any half decent API check cause he will need some form of asset / ISK to fund the awox.

Or take the safe approach of a trainee corp in your alliance. They can join in on the stuff while there without the hazard for the main corp. Most Awoxers are not patient enough to go through thw trainee corp when there are plenty of stupid and easier targets.

Or let them fly on good standings with you for a while before you officially recruit them. Again, an awoxer will not even try as there are plenty of stupid corps that let him in too easily.

You keep bouncing from "Waah all new players are awoxers" to "Waah everybody wants to awox new players". Both which are false, the first as explained above is easily avoided by good and clever recruitment the latter just doesnt make sense. Why would I Awox a new player when I can awox Johnny No-clue in his pimped Navy Raven as easily if I wanted.

Sure, there will be people that target new players in their Awoxing, but the majority of the awoxers target bigger ships for bigger gains and a much better killboard.

What is this thread about? :/

Get on comms with your recruit and it is actually quite easy to spot a new player from someone who made an alt. By just spotting irregularity in knowledge of game mechanics etc.

Come back when yoh have been recruiting for 3.5 years aswel as being the lead recruiter and security guy for an alliance.

And never ever saw anything that you claim happen.
I've rwcruited and saw plenty of new players been recruited, none of which were awoxers. Sure, we had to turn down a bunch of alts that tried, but those were easily spotted.

Look at their skills, and look at their assets. Odds are that if a "newbie" is making a beeline for destroyers, you're in for some trouble.

Here's a novel idea: having new players join loot pinata corporations is a bad idea. Being in the damn NPC corporations is a touch better than being taught to fit flux coils on your Drake, and to be afraid of your own shadow, by some megalomaniac who treats his corporation members like his own personal property.

you mean

-their ships
-their fits
-their afwully specific skillset
-money tansfers between alts
-usually a funny name like "Blute Shoes" or "PopBlues"

the one who doesnt play this game is you if you dont even realize this

All of this talk about how CEOs don't recruit noobs because of awoxing completely ignores the fact that CEOs don't recruit noobs at much higher rates because they can be future war spies. Doesn't even begin to compare.

Maybe you feel safe talking about hypotheticals, but I actually infiltrate these corporations by the dozen and get hired to protect them sometimes, so I have more than enough practical experience with regard to the matter. I think I heard awoxing being mentioned half a dozen times at most by these people in the last five or six years, but every single one of them make war spying an almost-daily piece of conversation.

amount of effort put in is irrelevant if the feature is no longer there.

A. Yes, it is VERY easy to spot a true new player from a veteran with a new character if you put some effort in it.

B. Haha, so an Awoxer that skilled his SP to meet your SP limit, suddenly isn't a issue anymore. So, if I with 50 mil SP apply to a corp, that means I can't ever be an awoxer to your logic.

C. It's weird that a trainee corp does work. They can have all the benefit of being in teh corp (just use the alliance chat as a corp chat) without any of the downsides for them being an awoxer. It's not segregating when you do everything as an alliance together.

D. It's not we don't recruit you, it's let's give you a trial period before we truely accept you among us.

E. Again, please point me to all those corps that don't recruit new players now, but will definately will after this change hits. The majority of the corps that don't recruit new players now, do that cause they don't want to deal with new player teaching. Those that truely want to teach new players in EVE, already do this by letting them in.

F. Effectively you are crying your eyes out so much about your inability to protect yourself against an awoxer, that CCP (yet again) gives in to your demands to make EVE Hello Kitty Online more.

Personally as I live in low-sec, I don't really give a **** about the change itself. But it just shows that CCP only looks at one thing: How to make EVE completely safe so we can have more of those WoW carebear people like yourself in this game, ruining the game with their feel of entitlement.

G. Maybe people's behaviour should change. It's called adaptation to your surroundings. The only people that don't want to change their behaviour, are the ones that cried so much they want absolute safety in high-sec. And from the progression so far, it looks like it will happen.

I can already tell the next thing you will cry about, it's either ganking being too easy and/or wardecs should be removed all together. And I wouldn't be half surprised if CCP, yet again will give in to your entitlement.

You might want to have a word with some 7+ year vets that are still in the NPC starter corp.

You've just done a complete 180.

I presented to you an aspect of the game that's responsible for keeping new players out of corporations to a much higher degree than awoxing, and your response is "information management."

What.

Can you guess what the next 2 logical things are that CCP will delete from the game?

Sure, but it is very very hard to be consistant with your lies if you are pretending to be a new player while you have knowledge about certain mechanics.

Someone who is new, isn't fully dedicated skilling into a certain ship + fit for instance.

Cause, maybe none of the corp were even remotely interested in mining all together.

Cause, nobody with even more then 1 braincell would like to mine in EVE.

Hell, I can tell you, I would rather put a gun to my head and pull the trigger then I would ever mine in this game.

ABCDEFG

Haha,

And as usual, you do not quote the part where I clearly state I have no issue with the change itself.

You are the person who loves strawmen and goes to the end of the world to manipulate it all to suit you.

Dave, I'm sure you've been here long enough to know what awoxing is. Awoxing does not require corp aggression.

Fun fact: While the time for crying about it is long gone according to him ...
... the time for making everyone know how he thinks about those who "cry about it" ... isn't.

No, it's really important to keep on pointlessly talking and talking and talking
although he should know that there is no point doing so.

Which leads to the one conclusion that all he cares about is being right ...
... and shoving it down the throats of everyone who thinks otherwise.



Yeah, no, this person has no conscious thought whatsoever. The fact that he has started editting in
more to his replies, because he simply failed to properly reply to the posts at the first time,
further shows that he's just a stupid reacting machine and should be rather ignored than responded to.


I suggest ignoring him, J'Poll. You are wasting your time and you are constantly at risk
of becoming a person like this ... well ... non-human, tbh.

Yet, the post clearly shows you quoted...